"Robyn, when I say Phoenix to you, what's the first thing that comes to mind?" "Debacle! Debacle comes to mind." Thousands of workers have experienced pay problems - under payment, late payment, and in some cases no pay at all - because of Phoenix, the new payroll system the federal government introduced in 2016. We sat down with Robyn Benson, the Public Service Alliance of Canada's National President, for a frank discussion about PSAC's response to the Phoenix debacle. Here's the video.